Difference between revisions of "Category talk:Artefacts"

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::Also, I know it's possible to do Google Forms with fancy data entry setups that make things really easy on end users -- the folks who run the Sentinels Statistics Project, tracking data on win rates for different hero teams in Sentinels of the Multiverse, have one and it's sweet -- but I have no idea how to make one. If someone figured it out, though, we could have it so that instead of playing with a spreadsheet people answering data just fill out a little questionnaire-type thing.[[User:Kerredai|Kerredai]] ([[User talk:Kerredai|talk]]) 07:49, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 
::Also, I know it's possible to do Google Forms with fancy data entry setups that make things really easy on end users -- the folks who run the Sentinels Statistics Project, tracking data on win rates for different hero teams in Sentinels of the Multiverse, have one and it's sweet -- but I have no idea how to make one. If someone figured it out, though, we could have it so that instead of playing with a spreadsheet people answering data just fill out a little questionnaire-type thing.[[User:Kerredai|Kerredai]] ([[User talk:Kerredai|talk]]) 07:49, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
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:::*nods* For the names/descriptions of specific items I have been using the name at the top of the screen when you go to translate the inscription, but like you said, the game describes/refers to an item in multiple ways at different times. Which is realistic, but annoying from a data gathering perspective. I've got the same problem as you, I've seen other people do some really interesting and creative things with google docs/sheets, and I have no idea how they did it. --[[User:Aramina|Aramina]] ([[User talk:Aramina|talk]]) 18:59, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:00, 29 October 2019

A few months ago I was doing some testing, trying to compile a list of possible artefacts + inscriptions to upload to the wiki, and found out that they seem to be random or semi-random.

Like, I go into Tapi's shop, offer him something, reload the game*, offer him the same object, and receive a different offer. So it's probably impossible to compile a complete list of artefacts and their inscriptions, although since a lot of the inscriptions make sense both grammatically and for the item type it might be possible to get a table of possible items (general type + random material + random descriptive embellishments) and inscriptions by item type.

Also, it seems like not all of the artefacts in the ruins are wholly fixed -- for some of them, there are multiple locations you can find that item in, some seem to be mutually exclusive (like, if you found Thing A on Planet X, you won't find Thing B there), and even for items you're guaranteed to find in a fixed place (The Crown on the Hermitage Moon) there seems to be a random element in the inscription (One time it was "We Remember Everything, We Lose Nothing, We Know All" in NG, and in a different NG run (not NG+!) it was "We Sail Eternally On Rivers of Light").

So creating pages for random artefacts like "this Antler Stylus I got from Tapi's shop" is probably not going to prove useful; it might be better to try to figure out, either from a whole bunch of examples in-game or from examining the game files, what the table of possible random elements is and how it connects to the table of possible inscriptions.

I had this thought, but I've noticed from my few experiments so far that I've had more repeats than you'd expect from a pure random table generated set. For now, I'm going to stick with the current set-up because in the very least it gives us more information to learn from --Aramina (talk) 22:08, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
I noticed the same thing, but with a weird variation: it seemed to me like at first there was some variety, but it soon got "stuck" on one artifact even after complete shutdowns and reloads, with only really minor variations. I suspect that weirdness is just an artifact of small numbers of trials and that in fact it's just semi-random -- f'rex, Huang always tries to give you an artefact of similar type, whereas I think Tapi tries to give you one that has similar value according to his weird valuation methods.
Also, I've been meaning to do a kind of "hoarder" run where I just collect as many distinct artefacts as possible, using metagame knowledge to find sites and ruins, and then make a copy of the save, so that there's a save available with a big damn pile of artefacts for testing purposes. And, possibly, a version of that save where there's only one item of each type -- scimitar, knife, sextant, compass etc. -- to provide complete disambiguation. Not sure where I'd share such a thing, though; can you put attachments on Wiki pages? If so, I could just stick them on my profile page.Kerredai (talk) 07:49, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Popping back like, 12 hours later to say I'm not trying to be stubborn here, just that I'm not able to see a good way to collaboratively compare information in a better way than having individual pages and cross-referencing. For example, the few times I had a different artefact with the same inscription after a reload, they were really obvious variants of each other: Heavily Scratched Telescope vs. Heavily Scratched Sextant. My instinct right now is that there's a "inscription" pool of items that you never see other than from Huang, but that Tapi and Timor's items can probably be found in ruins/moons. My hope is that over my replays/other people contributing information we can see what is and isn't consistent. I'm leery of setting up one massive table to start with because that just seems really unwieldy to maintain during this trying to figure stuff out stage. --Aramina (talk) 05:01, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Hmmm. My instinct is kind of the opposite -- that a massive table type thing would be *easier* for comparison than a bunch of pages that silo the info onto each individual page. Maybe we could go halvsies and create, like, a Google doc/spreadsheet type of thing -- "Descriptor, material, item type, place of manufacture, inscription, where you got it from" -- to collate info all in one place, and link it from the Artefact main page so it's handy for folks as they're making pages? I guess the Category page kind of does that already, but you'd have to click into each page for things like "inscription" or "point of origin". The descriptor thing is complicated a bit by the seeming fact that not only do Huang and Tapi describe a given item differently, sometimes one of them will start using a subtly different name for the same item -- for example, I've had Huang describe an item as a "Decorated Tablet" on one visit and an "Etched Tablet" on another.
Also, I know it's possible to do Google Forms with fancy data entry setups that make things really easy on end users -- the folks who run the Sentinels Statistics Project, tracking data on win rates for different hero teams in Sentinels of the Multiverse, have one and it's sweet -- but I have no idea how to make one. If someone figured it out, though, we could have it so that instead of playing with a spreadsheet people answering data just fill out a little questionnaire-type thing.Kerredai (talk) 07:49, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
  • nods* For the names/descriptions of specific items I have been using the name at the top of the screen when you go to translate the inscription, but like you said, the game describes/refers to an item in multiple ways at different times. Which is realistic, but annoying from a data gathering perspective. I've got the same problem as you, I've seen other people do some really interesting and creative things with google docs/sheets, and I have no idea how they did it. --Aramina (talk) 18:59, 29 October 2019 (UTC)